Extracts from bioenergy lists on gasificatio

Pannirselvam P.Vpannirbr at gmail.com
Sun Jul 20 15:43:32 CDT 2008

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Hello Tom Miles Thank you for your quick reply Your list ref post : On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote: > Pannirselvam > >Gasification of biosolids from anaerobic digestion is certainly a topic > that > should be discussed here, especially if it is a way of recovering additional energy from digestion. But I wonder if it has a higher value as a soil amendment for growing more biomass, especially in areas like the "drought polygon" of northeastern Brazil. (When I lived in Fortaleza I visited the region from Recife to Maranhao including Joao Pessoa, Natal and Terezina.) >_____________________________________________________________________________* we have heer both problems energy in rural area as well as poor soil too , we need both to be solved . the liginin has more calorific valaue tan hemicellulose , cellulose digested , thus deoending upon the place we can have the choice Very glad to know that you have lived in both place where I worked too the Foraleza and Natal , RN state , NE, Brazil ,.Welcome you again to make visit this tropical place and us too ,as you know the place, where we need more bioenergy too like what you have posted very good simple bioenergy system as well as tropical bioenergy joint project too . Per year alone there is 60 millions$ RS, nearly, 40 million u.s dollar worth of cashew apple, are lost in the forest plantation of cashew apples , making use of only the cashew nuts .more over all thecashew nut sheel left as as waste too in my small state RN , NE Brazil alone .
As you lived there , you know my sate RN is litle compred to Ceara and Maranhao, there too thes waste are simillar. can freely share the information. The cashew nut shell extraction via pyrolysis combined with gasification to export energy to grid with local and federal goverment suport are reality .we can help for the investor for this ecobusiness venture, in this respect ,we need help from you and also from list members .well , I am very glad that you have already worked , know the realityand I also wish Benjamin from tis list , who undesrstand our reality very well too also help too find some way . This rich fruits all the year go as waste into methane, but let us make them into s food , fuel , feed fo . Africa , Europe and **USA**, as we all live ina globalised world with Wallmarket an carrefour every where making profit as they can also help too. The list here like ours is a place where global investers , the university researchers , several equipments manufacturer as well as young new researcher look , get information as well share this too . Nearby in Africa several people starve , world food crysis increase too , but here the place you have visited several million naturral products cashew apple yet go as wastes , not as wealth in this globalised world, un noticed as some one wrote here in this list taht the newspaper do not give important fo rte same fo bioenergy projects in US , every where the same problems I am sure gasification is the needed technology for our place , welcome to all to make the jouney together to find and make possible solution to the yet unsolved problems via eco energy business * you wrote : > > > InNorth Carolina we found that by gasifying biosolids in a fluidized bed gasifier we could stage the gasification to reduce the emission of NOx and SOx from the high nitrogen in the biosolids. But wouldn'tit be better to return the N and S to the soil for the plants? Gasification of animal manures and bedding is similar in that they often contain high amounts of nitrogen and soluble nutrients (e.g. alkali) that vaporize in gasification and must be removed before the gas is used in an engine or combustor. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Protein recovery via biogas system of hemicelluose and most part of cellulose with good seperation of solid part , the hydrolised protein as the liquid fertizer appear to be an viable better system. as most microbial protein go to liqui*d , then *do thermal gasification of lignin part for energy and power .Depending on the biosolid ,if it have more lignin after biodigestion can serve for thermal gasification,not all one as thermall gasifier do make this now . the combination need to be for welfar of the land , not to suit technology As per my earlier post , the biogas can be e need be an pretreatment for thermal gasifier.This system approach had been already patented by IGT , Inst, Gas Technology, USA * * ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * you wrote : > > A good example of combining gasification and digestion are Reg Preston's 4 > kWe gasifiers at the UTA (University of Tropical Agriculture Foundation) in > Colombia and Cambodia. The engine is run during the day with producer gas > from the gasifier and by night on biogas. I think the biosolids are used > for > crops. > http://www.utafoundation.org/gasification.htm > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/gasdoc/cambodia/kungtouche.html > > There are clearly many applications where having power has a greater value than the unit cost. The UTA gasifiers cost about $15,000 for 4 kWe delivered to Colombia. Those costs have probably increased with recent world trends in > steel and transportation.> > In our economy a gasifier must either offset disposal costs or save money > compared with buying from the grid. So the economics are challenging. The > digesters I referred to in Oregon would not benefit from gasification. One > serves a single dairy and the other serves several dairies. Their primary > benefits are environmental: they reduce odor, reduce the amount of > phosphorous returned to the land by 50%; and they serve as a primary > treatment for the dairy manure/wastewater. T*he long time environmental benefits need to be also taken as the cash balance , not only the loss or profit analysis of the short time look * * If this Small system can COMPETE AND SURVIVE WITH LARGE ONE . EVEN IN USA , as your page showing this as true , is an an turning point in the history of biopwer as soon this may expand fast .* Thanking you for your informative information as quick reply. I am sure that the small bioenergy power can be made working in several part with very low investments around 15 000 us dolar with Indian made gasifier can make light to all the place where there are darkness to place with huge forest areas such as Brazil With kind regards Pannirselvam P.V Brazil > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org > [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Pannirselvam > P.V > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:01 AM > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification > Cc: Rajesh S Kempegowda; vadivel vellingiri > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Economics of small Biothermal > combined system > > Hi Tom and Neal et al
> > > One need not do economic analysis in an isolated way un relted to the > changing marco economics with micro economics of local production . > ShoeMaker in his book Small is beautiful make this point very clear > comparing indian small business, how the foot wear is 10, more expensive > than food one eat as you know making this take less time , less resouces > too. > > When something happen like 11 September again and agaian another war > which > no peace living one in the world can ever tolerate and like , the macro > economicworld energy price may go up very much too . The independence of > the farmer has it economical long time benefits too, not ex´port very cheap > the energy , but make more biofertizer for him .Again the micro e macro > econmics too .The bazilian independent energy is an example not only fro > nation but also for saml farmer as this vital for survival. > > Here in North East Brazil, the liquid fertilizer from biodigester are sold > 2 > times more value than coca cola per liter value , as plant in semi arid > need to have the best nutrients drinks too with co2 enriched by biogas ; > with more protein than raw feed biomass , as we have 2 times more > microbial proteins in the biodigestor slurry effluents as this is an > excellent slow release fertilizers.The elephant grass which need Little > water price in summer here is 2 times than sugar cane as one is controlled > by macro economic , the other not so.> > > I think the bio solid need to be sold high price as well as liquid fertilizer , so that the project will not break , so it can survive too > making the whole agricultural land much better.If the wall mart enter into > this liquid fertilzer ecobuiness market for the world buiness through l > the > world marketing system they wel establised , then the system economicas may > change , as they can make or break nay products as they like in an > globalized world dominated not by natural capitalism , but by finacial > capital only. > > The bio solid fiber that can be very easily seperted from output of the > reactor using vibrating screen can be recycled sold as animal feed for > chicken and pigs too , not compostedto sell it lower value. > > One can do gasification , make power of biosolids rather than sell at > lower > price ,as already power generator is invested , one can double the energy > via thermal gasification , and hence more viability too > > Thu this combined biothermal gasification we believe that this system > has more viability than one as both can optimize the power production > capacity as there is demand from the same, not for local animal feed or > fertilizer > > This approach has not recieved heer more attention as appear to be off > topic , but gasification be bio are thermal , cant be seperated as if > biogas as of topics > >I wish more attention of this topic as biogas alone is not viabale , let > see > the cobined to be vaiable one or not > > Thus the integrated bio energy system of land and animal need to be the > sustainable in all aspects and dimension;technically possible , > economically > viable as the whole system but not an isolated one , ecologically correct > for all the land and socially have justice for all of the land .This > thinking need not be cosidered to the oriental very old technological > way > of planning and working with economic and ecological objectives together > but as system approach of energy project development sustainbality too with > all aspects listed > >Thus the combined whole integrated system, even sometimes, which can be > less economic can be more profitable with time , as the system are more > dynamic evolving solving environmental problems. > > > In this respect, most of the Brazilian ago industries are integrated more > environmentally correct withagricuture and lands too , mostly bigfarm > like farm like USA.,.All isolated system viability is very less , but > brazilian agroindustry model is more integrated with lands , and all big > industry too look towards better land improvement , unlike USA., thus > perhaps the only country able to survive better in the world energy crysis > , capacity also to make the crysis aportunity to sell as aportunity to > make > biofuel, wood, charcoal,biooil,bionaturalga , bioetanol and biodiesel as > it is blessed with Sun ligt and energy all the year , almost all the > place., > with very good and short learnig cure withBioethanol > > We have posted recently some viable practical integrated system in the > link pages of the wiki, related with biogas as well as pyrogas and biochar, > in the wiki journal of our Ecological system engineering > www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com <http://www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com>. > > If more information is needed, we can also provide , but this is off topic > or not is very clear to me > > With regards > Pannirselvam P.V > > Brazil > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:00 PM, <CAVM at aol.com> wrote: > > > > > Tom, et al, > > > > You said: > > > > Here in Oregon an anaerobic digester gets $0.06/kWh for power and > > struggles > > to break even, even with recovery of the engine heat and sales of the > > (composted) biosolids. A 150 kWh biomass gasifier here would not be able > > to > > make power for as little as $0.06/kW even with heat sales from the > engine. > > > > > > What would you estimate the economics of gasification generated > electrical > > power in the range of 150kW? > > > > Neal > > > > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > >_______________________________________________ > > Gasification mailing list > > Gasification at listserv.repp.org > > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org > > http://info.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > -- > Pagandai V Pannirselvam > http://pannirbr.googlepages.com > Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN > Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ > Centro de Tecnologia - CT > Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ > Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC > > Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário > CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil > > Residence : > Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, > Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 > Capim Macio > EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil > > Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-3769 Ramal210 > 32171557 > Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 > residencia 32171557 > > Cellular 84 88145083 > > www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > Gasification at listserv.repp.org > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org > http://info.bioenergylists.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > Gasification at listserv.repp.org > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org > http://info.bioenergylists.org > -- Pagandai V Pannirselvam http://pannirbr.googlepages.comUniversidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN Departamento de Engenharia Química -DEQ Centro de Tecnologia - CT Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil Residence : Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951, Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102 Capim Macio EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-3769 Ramal210 32171557 Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770 residencia 32171557 Cellular 84 88145083 www.ecosyseng.wetpaint.com

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