The folowing dialogo of the biofuel list members are the easy metho the
one method to learn the process analysis




From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Pagandai Pannirselvam
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel "New Process"
>
> Dear Cris,Thomas Kelly,Tom ,KEN ,
>
> From Prof Pannir,Ufrn, BRAZIL
>
>2007/4/10, Thomas Kelly <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>Chris,
> I agree with you when you say
> "I can't see anything new about their process and it doesn't seem to
>make any sense.".
>
>
>
> Pannirbr>>>>>>Certainly the results compared to the conventional
>process has merit and has more sense , as the cost of separation of
>good grade glycerol involve more than 50 percent the total cost of
>the BioD production.It is the fact that It reminds us to be of a
>poorly written science project as this is because the information
>of the novel technological process are valuable , but the
>farming community is one who share the knowledge freely.Surely
>Keith know well how hard for him to get the new BioD process
>information published in JFT, but incomplete information are always
>available and here too the same is true .However the project has
>good future even for small scale production in farm scale as very
>good results have been reported for the product quality of BiOD,
>glycerol,recovered alcohol
>
>
> The "New Process" appears to be the two stage acid/base process.
>Stage One involves esterification of fatty acids ----> methyl esters. Stage
>Two is the transesterification of mono-, di-, triglycerides ----> methyl
>esters.
>
>
>Pannnir >>>>> The combined reaction and separation known as
>reactive distillation is an advanced novel innovative system of
>chemical engineering process engineering subjects.I am sure that l
>the small scale production in farm can do benefit using this novel
>methods not as it is as this is complex units , but can be modified
>if one wish to get recovery of alcohol and glycerol
>
>
> I don't know why filtration is included in each stage prior to washing.
>
>
>Pannir >>>>>>> the product glycerol combine with ester , making the
>reverse reaction.If you can understand also the diverse di
>glycerol byproducts making the biofuel with less quality.The better
>the separation as soon this is formed better the yield , product
>quality.
>
>
> I'm also confused about "Distilling" the washed and dried "Crude
>Biodiesel" to get "Biodiesel". While it is possible to recover methanol from
>the glycerine mix and even from the unwashed biodiesel by distillation,
>washing removes any excess methanol, so I can't imagine why one would
>distill washed and dried BD.
>
>
> Pannirbr >>>> Really we need more information and I can agree
>with you. I think it is not a simple distillation , but extractive
>distillation to recover back diverse di ,tri esters formed.If you
>remember that this process new , the co products need to be
>recovered as the catalyst is yet not an perfect one.
>
>
> The 30 minute reaction time referred (as an advantage of the "New
>Process" to is only for Stage One (acid esterification). There is still a
>1 -2 hour base catalyzed transesterification (Stage Two). It also claims
>that there is "no stirring" ..... I suspect this is wrong.
>
>
>Pannirbr>>>>>>>>> I think,this is possible , eventhough not
>enough information is yet known , if one understand well what is
>reactive distillation some patented related with the processare
>known one. If you combine distillation and reaction, the products ,
>alcohol and water are separated simultaneously .Several patented
>process does prove that it is possible to get results with out the
>use of mechanical agitator's , but thermal energy are used , which
>can be recovered , thus the process is designed to be more energy
>efficient
>
>
> It says that the "Classic Process" cannot use soy, rapeseed, palm,
>coconut, sunflower, jatropa, recycled oil (WVO), or lard ????????
> Wrong again.
>
>
> The acid containing oil as well as the water content are
>yet still technical problems , as the transesterification reaction
>using alkai catalyst are very sensitive in terms of yield and
>quality .
>
>
> It reminds me of a poorly written science project.
>
>
> The project has merit surely , but have very poor content as
>they do not wish to share the technical information. There are
>several innovations especially the better quality of all the
>products , higher recovery , less reaction time , more productivity
>, better energy recovery less environmental problems .But I agree
>with all the coments here in the list that this much advantage is
>needed for the farm scale production not worthy considering the
>complexity
>In this sense our old JFT two sage still can be gold.Yet some
>novel modification can be possible to make more environmentally
>friendly our old two stage proven JFT BioD process
>We from Academic research will always wish to invent the process ,
>so that the farmer can also modify to be more productive , the
>better the quality of the products totally diferent of academic one.
>
> I wish also to get the comments as our list has so many members
>from several countries , only very few members are involved here in
>recent biofuel list discussions..The more younger list members
>views , our list leader Keith very balanced view need to make this
>topic very long debate .Thus the simple BioD process can be made
>possible by participation of all, as the web2 social networking of
>this list members words are more powerful and useful to make the
>good shape for the green future of new generation bio fuel from
>biomass for all the people ,which can be made possible by active
>participation of our list members , not by academics only or by
>profit oriented big blue company. The new generation biofuel is like
>the new wave social web2 , the free open process for several
>billions farmer to be free and independent of the big blues
>globalised market .This the natural way for green future for all ,
>where all are included to have the sustainable green fuel .
>
>>>Kind regards
>
>Pannirselvam P.V
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Christopher & Jacqueline Tan"
><<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:53 AM
>Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel "New Process"
>
>
> > This website
><http://www.inet.hr/~jkuftine/en/biodizel.htm>ht